4. Postpartum for the Highly Sensitive Mom: When it’s Harder than you Expect

The postpartum period is one of the most transformational times in a woman’s life. She is changing from the inside out - from brain changes to cellular changes and it can be very overwhelming for the sensitive mom.   

During pregnancy and after giving birth, drastic hormonal shifts occur and you are expected to manage all of this with elegance, grace, looking good and enjoying every moment.  That is not the reality for most moms, and these expectations can cause a host of problems during motherhood, including postpartum disorders.

In this episode, we explore how highly sensitive moms uniquely experience the postpartum period. We discuss what the symptoms of postpartum anxiety, depression, and postpartum OCD look like and how to take care of yourself during this tumultuous and beautiful time.   

Recognizing symptoms of a postpartum disorder early is key, and in this episode we talk about how to know what those symptoms are and when to seek professional help. Management of these symptoms, whether on the normal spectrum or a disorder may include therapy—especially cognitive behavioral therapy—medication like SSRIs, and strong support systems. 

We also talk about how lifestyle changes such as better sleep, nutrition, and mindfulness help immensely to keep you emotionally healthy.

We’ll talk about:

• Why sensitivity amplifies emotional and physical challenges
• What to do when symptoms become overwhelming
• How to create a smoother, more supportive postpartum experience

Even if you're past this phase of motherhood, this podcast will be so healing for you as a senstiive mom, because, let's be honest, you never stop being "postpartum" and it may even help you feel like you weren't crazy for feeling the way you felt or having the struggles you had.

What Helps Highly Sensitive Moms Thrive during postpartum and how can you prepare?

• Gentle support systems: Empathetic friends, family, or therapists who validate and listen
• Quiet time and boundaries: Guilt-free space to recharge and protect emotional energy
• Mindfulness and grounding: Practices that soothe the nervous system and reduce overstimulation
• Professional help: Therapy, medication, or support groups tailored to postpartum mental health

If you or a highly sensitive mom you know is pregnant, or you are in your 4th trimester, this episode is for you!

Professional Resources:

Postpartum Support International: postpartum.net

Perinatal Partners Network: perinatalpartnersnetwork.com

Postpartum Stress Center: postpartumstress.com

Transcript

Adrienne: 0:01

Hello and welcome to Real Parenting for the Sensitive Mom, the podcast for moms who feel everything and still show up. I'm Adrienne Bishop, your co-host and parenting coach, and I'm Leah Andrione, your co-host and family therapist. Today you will hear us talk about how sensitive moms uniquely experience the challenges of the postpartum period, what to do when symptoms become too hard to manage, and how to have as smooth of a postpartum experience as possible.

Leah: 0:28

So we want to talk about and have a space for when women don't always know when they need to seek help. And this is a hard one because when a woman has a baby and the baby's brought into the family, there's a lot of expectations put on her coming from society, coming from family, coming from partners. We are supposed to do it, enjoy every moment of it, not complain about it. And that's just not possible. I don't know about you, but I definitely didn't hit that picture perfect mom look or be able to have everything clean all the time and still take care of a baby and still take care of myself. And when you're going through this massive transformation in your life, then you have all these hormones and all these brain changes, and you have environment changes that are affecting you. And when this happens, it really, especially for the highly sensitive moms who's going to feel this change drastically more than I would say an average mom. We're gonna have all this reactions that we've literally never had before.

Adrienne: 1:47

First had my first child. And it was so disconcerting. I was kind of not myself, is really what it felt like. Like I was a different person, to be honest. And at the time, I didn't think that it was a problem. I didn't think there was anything different about it. I thought that maybe I just couldn't handle things as well as other people. So I'm curious to hear, you know, from you, Leah, who you have so much experience working with this population, this exact time in these moms' lives. What does it look like for the moms that come in to see you postpartum? Like what are they experiencing a little bit more specifically? Would you mind kind of talking through that?

Leah: 2:28

Every mom is very individual. So this is going to be a broad conversation. And starting with the moms come in, like like you said, they don't feel like themselves anymore because the brain has uh changed. The brain has changed, your brain has shrunk to take care of this baby. You literally can't think of anything else. So if you can't think of anything else, you don't have the capacity to manage what's going on inside of you. And like you said, you didn't know how intense these feelings and these experiences were gonna be. So with the intensity comes a lot of mood swings and feeling overwhelmed with uh just daily life at this point. And even if you are able, you're staying home, you bring home the baby, you're staying home. Maybe you have support, hopefully, from a partner, hopefully from another support system or a support person. Yeah, but your body doesn't feel the same, your uh moods are going all over the place with the drastic hormone shift right after giving a baby. And the overwhelm is gonna come because now, as highly sensitive people, our senses are magnified, and it's supposed to be because we're supposed to now be able to take care of this other little human being. Evolution says do everything for the baby. So being with a baby 24-7, especially if you're nursing around the clock, you don't have time to rest. Your nervous system doesn't have time to restore. So you don't have time to catch your breath, really check in and say, How am I feeling? Because you've never felt it before. So having your all your senses of flutter, of noise. I mean, for all the sensitive, those with sensitive hearing, the baby cries can send you into fight or flight where you want to leave your baby and you know, safely go into another room, but that reaction is going to be so intense and you've never felt that before. Moms are gonna say, Hey, but this is my baby. I'm supposed to be there, I'm supposed to be able to take care of the baby, I'm supposed to be able to handle this.

Adrienne: 4:45

Exactly. I mean, I remember feeling like this was my only job, I just had to be there for the baby and I couldn't even do that. There was no rules either. There was no manual, right? So you're like, on top of being sensitive to all the sensory change challenges, you're like, I don't even know what I'm doing. And that's really hard for sensitive moms because we want to get it perfect. Like we're mostly perfectionists, right? We feel like if they we do anything wrong, something bad's gonna happen. And that just gets amplified like a million percent when you have a baby and you're taking care of another human. It's your job to keep this person alive, to keep them healthy, to keep them safe. It becomes so scary for at least for it was for me. And I know that a lot of moms I work with went through the same thing where it's this constant, this is my job and I have to get it right, but there's no one telling me how to get it right. And then my baby's different than this baby, and somebody else's baby's different, and this mom is different. So there's just no answers. And so not only is it just the hormonal shifts and the physical shifts and all of the external things that are changed, but then also the expectation is there too that you have to do it right. And I feel like that creates a lot of like we're gonna talk about some anxiety also. So it can create all these really intense feelings around being perfect and being making sure that you get it right. And the expectation is so high in our own minds, right? We think that it should look a certain way. Would you mind talking a little bit about the way that anxiety can really come in to like this time of your life? Yeah.

Leah: 6:14

The anxiety is part of it is normal because, like I said, our nervous system is now on alert 100% of the time to take care of this little baby. It's supposed to be, but it's also knowing what is more, we'll say, average heightened anxiety versus a little bit more extreme and I'm not able to function anxiety. It's very normal and average for you to worry about. Hey, I'm a little concerned. Is my baby breathing? They have those little socks and they'll have the little gadgets to make sure your baby's heart rate's still going and it's breathing. Fine. If you can sleep when you put that little sock on, that's not a problem. The problem if you're sitting there, I know one mom, she sat there or laid there in the bed with her hand on her baby's chest to make sure the baby was sleeping. That's not necessarily what I would call average because it is getting in the way of your sleep and it's getting in the way of your relationship with your partner. So it's how is the anxiety functioning and are you still functioning with it? So constant worry, like 24-7 worrying or erasing thoughts, especially about the baby's safety. Is the baby breathing? Is the baby going to get hurt? And then we'll talk a little bit about postpartum OCD, which is then you engaging in behaviors that decrease your anxiety. But just postpartum anxiety, you're gonna constantly feel like you're on edge. Like I said, your nervous system is activated, but it's gonna be activated even more where it's going to get in the way of sleeping. They do say sleep when the baby sleeps. Sometimes you can get that in. And making sure that if you are able to get a chunk of sleep at night, that you are able to sleep during that time and you're not scrolling on your phone, making sure you're doing everything right and you're not going into Dr. Google.

Adrienne: 8:09

I love that you said that because that makes it much more concrete, right? We have an example of what does it look like when it's going a little bit too far over the average, right? And possibly into something a little more serious. And I think some people may have those habits or have done that at some point, but maybe if it doesn't last or go as long as, you know, some people, it might not be as big a problem, right? So there's a time frame that we need to pay attention to along with the severity of the symptom. So you have somebody that's maybe get brings the baby home and it's like a weekend and they're Googling all night. And then they are like, you know what? Everything's fine. I'm okay. The baby's okay, I'm gonna stop. And would you say that that makes sense for it to be on the normal spectrum, on the, you know, it's okay. Yes, absolutely.

Leah: 8:57

Because this is a brand new, if this is your first, this is a brand new experience for you. Yeah. You've never done this before. Where do we go to get information? Google. It's fine, you know. But like you said, it's having that short time of doing it and then be like, wait a minute, this isn't really helping. I'm gonna put this down. Maybe I'll talk to a trusted family member or friend to get advice. I would suggest that over Google. But staying up at night, going on Google for weeks, for days, that's not healthy. It's always looking at is this behavior really getting in the way?

Adrienne: 9:31

Yes.

Leah: 9:32

Of maybe being a functional mom. Because if you're not, the baby's going to be taken care of. You're gonna always focus on the baby, family members are always gonna focus on the baby, but you need to be okay also. You have to make sure you're sleeping because sleep disturbance is what I consider number one predictor of a postpartum mood disorder.

Adrienne: 9:53

So you're saying that when you have sleep disturbance because of it being maybe anxiety at night or stress, or you're up because you're worrying, or what else would you be doing besides sleeping? Would you say? Is there anything else you've you've come across? Would it just be the worry and the anxiety would keep you awake, or I mean the baby will keep you awake, clearly. But is it more intense than just that? Is it the thoughts and the stress on top of the baby keeping you up? It is the thoughts and the stress, yes. Okay.

Leah: 10:19

Because not being able to sleep, you know, being woken up by the baby five, six times a night, that's unfortunately normal. I also suggest finding someone who can also take care of some night feeding. So you can have a um a stretch of four to six hours if possible, just to keep you on the functioning level during the day. But if you're just sitting there laying in bed and not having all those racing thoughts, then it might be, you know, just some insomnia and might be some just cognitive strategies that you can use to get yourself to sleep again.

Adrienne: 10:55

So if you don't have the intrusive thoughts or the worry or the stress, but you don't sleep because the baby's waking you up a lot, does that still mean you could have a higher chance of having postpartum depression or anxiety because you're just not getting that REM sleep or whatever that deep sleep is that helps you renew? Okay, so it's both not just only people that worry or stress a lot at night, but it's literally if you're just up a lot with the baby, your likelihood of having postpartum depression maybe goes up anyway.

Leah: 11:25

Yes. Okay. Because, like you said, in that REM sleep, that restorative sleep, you're not, your body's not in that, your brain's not in that. So being able to restore from the day, rest, relax, have your nervous system regulated for those hours. If that's not happening, the daytime is going to be worse. You're going to have less capacity to handle any anxiety, to handle any overwhelm that's coming, to be able to handle the baby's cries the next day. You're going to be more irritable. You're going to maybe cry easier because everything is too much, right? And this is for any mom, but a highly sensitive mom who can't literally can't handle the baby's cries, which happens, there's nothing wrong with you. It's just a fight or flight response that's evolutionarily responsible to go take care of your baby then. But if you're sitting there then with your hands over your ears and you're like, I can't do this, I can't do this, you're gonna have all that negative self-talk that you were talking about. Yeah. Oh, my baby's so hard. Oh, I can't handle this, that will lead to more depression. That makes sense. Because your your understanding of your capacity to handle this new transformative time in your life, that's going to lead you to not necessarily not take care of the baby, but definitely not take care of you. And the signs of depression is if you're not taking care of yourself, if you're crying more, if you're um not eating, especially if you're nursing, you got to eat. You have to drink, you have to take care of yourself. And depression takes our motivation away to take care of ourselves. And that's dangerous for you, especially if you're nourishing the baby.

Adrienne: 13:07

So it's more about the idea that you're functioning less than normal. So you're not able to eat. Maybe you're not even able to sleep, right? We've talked about that kind of influencing that just because you're and you have insomnia. Maybe you're not able to do what you want to do, like take care of the baby or even get out of bed, or there's a lot of rest, like a lot of rest happening, but maybe no sleep, right? So, like, yeah, is there any other signs that people should look out for as a sensitive mom, especially? I feel like we're just more likely to get postpartum depression and anxiety. And that could be completely made up, but that's what it feels like to me. So, if is there any other signs that we haven't mentioned that could be red flags for I need to go see someone and get some help?

Leah: 13:50

Yeah, especially with your social support. So if you're avoiding certain people, if you're avoiding places, if you're avoiding going out, if you're avoiding people coming over to support you. Now, granted, if you want to have six weeks for you and your partner and your baby to settle in, go for it. That's absolutely a period called the lying in period. And it can be very helpful for you and your partner and your baby to really get to know each other. But if after that you still don't want to have anybody over and not really socialize, then that's avoidance behaviors. And we really want to take a look at is that depression? Also, if I had clients that were so anxious, so activated, they weren't sleeping, they just wanted to uh leave their house. They felt so constrained, especially if you have a winter baby. Yes, you know, we already can feel claustrophobic, we can already feel stuck inside. Um, I had a winter baby, and the first four after the first four months, I was like, I need to get out. What class can I take? Where can I go? So you're already not as social. But if you have that feeling of, I'm I'm gonna crawl out of my skin, crawling out of your skin is not necessarily a symptom that we would put on more of the average side.

Adrienne: 15:09

Okay, so let me just clarify for the for the listeners that when you feel like you need to leave, like be outside because you feel like you're crawling out of your skin or you're claustrophobic on a regular basis, would you say, right? Like daily basis. Like this isn't just once in a while where like you're burnt out and you're like, I can't do this anymore. This is regular basis. And you're avoiding other people, you're doing you're not doing things you normally would do. So that's typical of regular depression, right? Like you're avoiding social situations or things that you normally would enjoy aren't enjoyable anymore. So that happens also in postpartum where you're feeling like you don't want to do things that you normally would do or get your social supports, or people say, I'm gonna drop by. Can I say hi to the baby? And it's been like 10, 12 weeks, and you're like, I know, I just can't do it. So that leads that might lead someone to have some red flags around maybe I should go seek some help around this if this is happening consistently, these things.

Leah: 16:05

Yes, yes, consistently, yes, and consistently for beyond the uh baby blues of the two weeks after you have a baby. Within the baby blues, it's very common to cry, definitely not to sleep, have these feelings of, oh my gosh, what happened? What did I do? But if they pass after two weeks, then we're really looking into is this more? Is this more? And you know, if you're having any questions, call your OB, call your doctor, and they will hopefully be able to send you to the right place, or at least it's a starting point. Yes. Um, and then if there's anything else that you need, there's so many therapists that work in this area.

Adrienne: 16:51

That's awesome. Yes. I was thinking about this podcast when you decided to do it. And I was thinking to myself, I think a lot of women don't know that there's there's this line. I wouldn't say it's a very clear line, it's a blurry line, but they don't know there's a line where I need to get help. And I think everybody could use support at this time, regardless of it being into non-functional disorder, but you know, even any sort of support you can get, be a therapist, via family, via, you know, anyone, would be great. But I feel like a lot of us are just confused as to where that line is and or don't even know that the line exists and don't know that you can get into a place of sort of being in trouble, right? So that was one of my goals for what I wanted you to talk about was getting the awareness out around what is postpartum depression, what is the the line, the blurry line as to like when you should start looking for some support because this is not something that we're doing to ourselves. Like we're not creating these situations at all. So I feel like that's another thing that comes up is some shame and some blame about around I should be able to do this better. I shouldn't need help. I shouldn't need to be going to the doctor and the therapist just because I had a baby. That is a hundred percent false. And I want to put out there that the just the hormonal shifts alone are going to throw a lot of sensitive moms off. And so that's just biological, that's just chemical. So we don't even have any say in that. That just happens to you. On top of the fact that a lot of sensitive moms already have a tendency, like I said, toward anxiety and depression before having a baby. So if you've had depression or anxiety in the past, that's a red flag again that it might come back up during postpartum. So that was my situation. I had anxiety in the past, and I did, I did have depression also. So it made it a little bit more likely that it was going to happen again for me. So if you're noticing that these symptoms or red flags, or even like I'm saying, your history leads you to possibly be like, oh, wait a minute, this doesn't feel quite average anymore. That's a really good cue for you to check in with an OB or a GP and just see, like, hey, where do I go? Where's my, where's my next, what's my next step? And know that it's normal to go into these possible situations just as, just as a person that has had a baby, and even more as a sensitive person that has had a baby. It's not anywhere near your fault and it's nothing you're doing wrong. And believing that you should be able to handle it on your on your own or there's something wrong with you can't if you can't handle it, is just going to make it that much harder for you to get the help you need. And it's false. It's just a false narrative. So I just I do you agree with me, Leah?

Leah: 19:26

Oh yes, oh yes. Yeah, our listeners can't see me nodding my head up and down to all of this. Um but yeah, so I wanted to also say, like you said, it is normal to go to your doctor, it is normal to go to a therapist, it's normal to talk to somebody about what you're going through. Even if you just need to talk to them for a few sessions and they're like, yeah, no, it's a transition. Let's help you through the transition, and then you're fine, you're good to go, right? So, because like you said, if you already have a past diagnosis of anxiety or depression, you are more likely to have postpartum anxiety, depression, OCD, bipolar um psychosis is pretty rare, but it does happen. And just knowing that you know that's why I really like to see the moms within pregnancy because you can plan for all this. Yeah. Also knowing that because you said it is normal, it is average to get that help. One in five moms will have a diagnosable mood disorder.

Adrienne: 20:31

Wow.

Leah: 20:31

One in five. That's high. That's really, really high. Yeah, and that's only the numbers that we can calculate. Right. So you know it may be higher. So it's even though it's very, very common, there are things that we can do to be able to manage it the best that we can have more of a seamless postpartum transition. This is a major, biggest transition in a woman's life. Yes. Because of the hormones and now, like you said, the expectations and all the shoulds that we have. I don't know if I talked about the shoulds. I don't like anyone using the shoulds. Don't show yourself. I talked to my clients. Are you shoulding yourself a lot? How is that making you feel? Probably leading to some depression.

Adrienne: 21:20

So you did mention that you had pregnancy plans, right? So the people come in, moms come in while they're pregnant, and you're setting them up for postpartum. So what does that look like? My brain just went to are we making them more nervous about getting postpartum anxiety and depression by talking about it during pregnancy or saying, hey, you did have a history, you're gonna want to be aware. Or are we just kind of giving them information that they need because it nest it's not something that you're doing on purpose. You're not creating it. So what do you think about informing pregnant women?

Leah: 21:50

It's all information. There's no 100% guarantee that because you have anxiety, you're gonna have postpartum anxiety. No guarantee your risk is higher. So we want to offer the information along with resources and also take away the shame that all the new moms have because they feel like you said they're not doing it right. This is not for them. Oh my gosh, what did I get myself into? That these thoughts do happen.

Adrienne: 22:18

And normalizing those, I think, is huge. And that's what you're doing. It's saying, hey, you're probably gonna think these things, but you don't need to feel like something's gone wrong if you do think them. And then this is the level where you're gonna want to say, oh, I think this has gone too far, so that you're able to have the information for the for the moms that come to see you so that they know, hey, I'm okay. This is normal. I'm all right. Having these thoughts are just part of the deal, or having these feelings are just part of the deal. And I know that if it feels like it's too much or it's gone too far, I know what to do. I know the next step. So that's kind of the goal, sounds like.

Leah: 22:52

Yes, because so many people, you know, talking to all the moms that I've worked with for so many years, pretty much all of them have said, no one told me it was gonna be this hard.

Adrienne: 23:02

Yes. And I just was thinking that, like I was getting a little bit emotional thinking about if I had a therapist while I was pregnant and they told me this is probably what you're gonna think. You're gonna worry that the baby's not breathing. You're gonna get anxious that you're gonna hurt the baby or something's gonna happen. And this is normal if you have these thoughts, or this is how this transition is gonna go. I could have had a completely different experience of my postpartum time.

Leah: 23:24

Being able to say this is fairly average and normal, and then this is the line.

Adrienne: 23:29

Yes.

Leah: 23:30

Like you said, this is the line. And knowing that there's so many providers, there's so much support out there that you can find that support and not be bogged down in your shame that just fuels the depression.

Adrienne: 23:44

I love that. That's such a good point because it could be something that makes you hide and not get that help, right? If you have the shame around it or you think you should be able to handle it like I did, that might lead you to not seek help. So the more information that we have while we're pregnant or while we're thinking of getting pregnant, the better for sure. I love that.

Leah: 24:03

Yes. And even being able to, because I know very strong women that think they should be doing it and they're not even telling their partners how they're feeling. So then their partners don't even know how to support them. So that's why it's important for dads, partners, anybody in the family to really understand this information too. Yeah. So they also know what they're looking for to say, how is my wife? How is my partner handling this transition? And I mean, there are some dads that have postpartum depression. That's a real thing too. Yeah, I can imagine. That's a real thing too. So where is that support? It's here. We have that support. I know people, there's organizations, it's out there. And being able to take away the shame for the family is very important.

Adrienne: 24:50

Do you think we could link some of those organizations to the podcast episode page? Okay, I think that'd be great. Also, yes, I was thinking about when you were talking about the support system, understanding what it looks like for a mom to have postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety. Oh my God, that would be amazing if someone had come to me and said, listen, I think this might be happening for you. I'm noticing that you're not feeling like yourself or you're not acting like yourself. Maybe it might be a good idea to just get some support, but in a way that wasn't shaming. Cause like I don't think anyone really was able to do that for me, which is understandable because people just don't have the information. I didn't have the information. But it was one of those things where if someone had noticed it and actually brought it up to me, it would have been huge. So hopefully this podcast will help people or any podcast about it or any information you could send to your spouse or your mom or your parents or any sort of support system, send to them and say, This is what it looks like for me to get in the place where I might need to get help. Can you please keep an eye on it? Cause I might not know that it's happening, which is really what happened to me. Like I just didn't know it was happening. It really would have been something that would have been nice to have support around. So I think that's a really good point. And I'm thinking about my situation and how I felt. And I want to kind of put it out there for you to tell me what you think. If it was something that I should have gotten help for, is that okay? Yeah. Yeah. Basically, what happened was when I had my first, I had that intrusive thoughts where I couldn't leave her alone for very long without checking her breathing. So I had the breathing issue, especially at night, I would wake up and check her breathing. And that went on for probably like three months or more. And I also was un was unable to do anything but just barely get her through the day. So I could feed her and I could change her. But that's about all I could do. I couldn't leave the house, I couldn't do the dishes, I couldn't cook, I couldn't do anything. And I remember my husband coming home and just being like, pick it all up. And he just would do it. He would just take care of all of it, which was amazing. But that's kind of where my brain goes to when it happened, when I think about my experience and how little I could function besides I did, I was able to change diapers and I was able to take, you know, feed her and take care of her basic needs. But I feel like everything else was just gone. And so I'm just curious. It probably went until about she was like four months or maybe even older.

Leah: 27:08

Okay. Cause I was going to say the first trimester, really, all you need to do is focus on baby. So if there are other people that can take care of the dishes and the cleaning and the cooking, fantastic. However, I'm not hearing you say that you were able to take care of yourself in that time.

Adrienne: 27:25

No, I was not able to do literally anything but just do the minimum for the baby. And then I also felt like that same, I had a depression in high school and I felt like felt like a bubble, right? Dissociation. And so that came back right around that time. It was like a bubble.

Leah: 27:41

Yes, absolutely. If you were experiencing that dissociation, then I would definitely say there was you could have benefited from somebody.

Adrienne: 27:50

Yeah. So I wanted to just put out that like specific experience because I feel like some people need a little more, a little more tangible examples so they know what it looks like. But for me, it was a lot of intrusive thoughts about something happening to the baby. And it would go, it would happen all day and all night. And I would worry about her just anything happening to her. So like just randomly hurting herself, randomly dying, randomly stop breathing. And it was, I would say, pretty constant. And so those were like some of the bigger challenges. And then that kind of took over everything else. And I wasn't able to do a lot of the day-to-day things that I normally would do. And then I also say, like I finally was able to around four months find a mom's group. And I basically tell them that they saved me because they did. They emotionally saved me because I was so stuck in that bubble, in that hole, that I couldn't, I couldn't function. I couldn't do anything else. And then they were able to say, hey, like I have thoughts too that are pretty not great. I feel the same way. My transition was really hard. And they were able to support me in that way. And so I didn't actually see a therapist, but I was able to get support through it was like 10 to 15 moms. Every week I'd go to one of their houses and we would just let the babies stay on the ground, you know, lay on the floor and we would just talk and have coffee. And it was so healing. And so I do credit that with a lot of helping me get through that time. And so it's so, so important. We don't have that anymore. We just don't have that built into our society anymore. So you have to seek it out. And so I will I always recommend to move to new moms, find a support group that's moms and just, you know, see them at least once a week and get out of your house. It's going to be hard. You're not going to want to do it, but it's going to feel great.

Leah: 29:31

Absolutely. So, yes, everything that you're saying is for that first four months. Yes, it was extremely difficult. You could have benefited from talking to someone even within two months to say, hey, we got this. Let's walk us through this. Let's provide you that support. Let's find support before four months, right? Because that would have been helpful. It goes to show the drastic improvement that you made from socialization, from hearing that you're not. Alone. And that's why social support is one of the basic parts of the postpartum plan that I come up with clients and continue throughout your life. I similarly, after that four months, needed to get out of the house, went to a baby class, but also found a mom's group that I still talk to sometimes over a decade later. So they are very restorative for your mental health, you know, sometimes for your physical health. And if you still don't want to find a therapist or outside provider, finding that social support can be life-changing and life-saving.

Adrienne: 30:33

It was completely life-saving for me. Yes, I agree with that. So when it comes to the different disorders, I just want to review. We talked about postpartum depression. We talked about postpartum anxiety. What else can happen?

Leah: 30:45

Yes, the postpartum OCD, the obsessive compulsive disorder. So when you were talking about just having the fear of something happening to the baby, that is one of the intrusive thoughts for the OCD. And sometimes you'll be walking and you're so, but you don't want to carry the baby because you fear that you're going to trip and drop the baby. Or you're so fearful you won't let anyone else hold the baby. Or your fear that you're going to slip something into the baby's milk by accident and poison the baby. And all of these are not rational. They're not rational thoughts. So once these get to a certain point that you start start to take the compulsive behaviors, the repetitive behaviors. So you're avoiding sharp objects, you're avoiding different spices or different cleaning supplies around where you're making the baby bottles. Those behaviors then start to make us think about a little bit more anxiety and put you kind of more in the OCD category.

Adrienne: 31:48

So you're saying it has to have the obsessive thoughts and the compulsive behavior together. Yes. Both have to be there. Okay. Yeah. So if you just have obsessive thoughts, that might lead more into anxiety, correct? Correct. Correct. Depends. But yeah, so then the compulsive behavior where, and you also mentioned that it's irrational. So I think that's a big part of it too, is it being just not make any sense in reality? It's not grounded in reality. Right. It's not like you did hurt the baby by falling. So now you're worried that it's going to happen again. Yes. Got it. Okay. So that's the postpartum OCD. Is there any other things that could occur? Yes.

Leah: 32:22

The one that's more rare, but has happened is the postpartum psychosis. So this is where you're going to possibly have hallucinations, hearing things that aren't there, seeing things that aren't there, any delusions, possibly believing that the baby is in danger when the baby is absolutely not in danger. And really, because you said, you know, dissociation, but this is going to be a period of where you're really confused and disoriented, and you may not be able to understand in your environment what's real and what's not. That's going to be more psychosis. You're also going to have possibly some mania. So where you're feeling extremely energized. And maybe you've you were able to clean the entire house and then fall into a deep depression.

Adrienne: 33:12

So we did mention, I did hear there's like this, I don't know if it's typical, but more of urban legends where somebody wants to kill their baby. Like the thoughts are telling them or something is telling them to kill their baby. Is that, would you call that psychosis? Yes. Okay. So it's more of these non-it's a break from reality.

Leah: 33:30

It is. And you think of it as psychosis because you might have an intrusive thought with anxiety or OCD that, oh my God, I'm going to hurt my baby, but you're actively trying to not hurt your baby, or you're terrified that you're going to hurt your baby. Where in psychosis, you really think you are going to save your baby if you kill it. Okay. So it's not having a negative reaction to the thought that your baby could get hurt or you could hurt your baby. That's where the dissociation comes in. Yes. And that's a psychosis and that's a medical emergency that you need to get. You need to get that person to an emergency room.

Adrienne: 34:08

Okay. I mean, to be honest, I've heard of all of these things, but I don't think I connected OCD and psychosis to postpartum. So I think this is so, so important and so helpful, even though it's rarer, more rare to have the psychosis diagnosis, we have to be aware of it. And so I really, really, I know it's kind of not great fun things to talk about, but we have to do it, right? We have to make sure we're healthy and support each other in that way and make sure everybody knows this information. So we have those four possible disorders that could happen and one more. Yeah. Okay.

Leah: 34:37

The um postpartum bipolar in the postpartum period. You could have, you know, a history of bipolar and then be, you know, fairly stable on any medication and then have a recurrence, um, a relapse in your symptoms during the postpartum period, whether you're in mania or you're depressed, and you can have some hallucinations and delusions in bipolar, but it's not going to have the intensity of the psychosis. So there's definitely things for us to be on the lookout for and for our partners to be aware of.

Adrienne: 35:12

With the bipolar, just one clarifying question. Do you have to have had bipolar up until this point or could it develop?

Leah: 35:18

It could develop, but most likely you've probably had bipolar before, a diagnosis of bipolar before.

Adrienne: 35:24

Got it. That makes sense. So it could be that you didn't get diagnosed, but then postpartum brings it out even more or something to that effect or makes it worse. Okay. Yes. That's very helpful. And I know you did mention, so we have five different possible disorders: postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, postpartum OCD, postpartum psychosis, postpartum bipolar. So then let us know. Is there anything we can do to prepare ourselves or to help even during the postpartum time to help us to be more grounded or more more, just more ourselves?

Leah: 35:55

Yeah, absolutely. I really feel that your support system, like we've talked about, can really help you through this and provide you the even the resources that you're going to need, such as any professional help, any therapist, any coach. I know postpartum duelist, if you don't want to go the full therapist route, they help the entire family and they're there to take care of mom. They know the baby's going to take care of, they'll change diapers, but they're going to make sure mom is taken care of. They're going to provide support for dad or the partner. And having a postpartum team with a doula, maybe a therapist, even a nutritionist that can really help because there are nutritional deficiencies after having a baby that not a lot of people are talking about. But the nutritional deficiencies can also lead to anxiety and depression symptoms. Can I add one? Yeah. Lactation consultant, maybe if needed, if you're nursing. Yes, a sleep specialist to help the whole family get the much important sleep. And if dad is struggling, there's support for dad, there's therapists, there's groups, there's ways that he can find his own support and having support for the whole family. And once you have that team behind you, you know you're not alone. I feel like that is able to take away the shame. And then you're able to have that postpartum experience that you truly want and deserve.

Adrienne: 37:28

I love that. And also just want to remind you, we do have a podcast. It's number two, it's about self-care for moms. And all of those techniques apply during this time period also. So you can go back and check out those. So you can go back to that and use those also. And we will see you guys in two weeks for our next podcast. Thank you. In the meantime, as always, you can find Leah and me on social media. My Instagram at Adrian Bishop Coaching, and Leah's is at Leah Andreoni. Hope to see you soon.